Barndominiums Built Better with Prefabricated Cold Formed Steel

What happens when a lifestyle trend collides with a better way to build?

In this episode of the Build it Better Podcast, Robert Johnson sits down with Matt Glasgow, co-founder of Barndo & Co., to unpack the explosive growth of barndominiums—and why this isn’t just a housing trend, but a shift in how people think about land, lifestyle, and construction.

From humble beginnings in real estate and contracting to building a global brand spanning Canada, the U.S., and Australia, Matt shares how Barndo & Co. is redefining the journey to homeownership. This isn’t about selling a building—it’s about guiding clients through a transition: from idea… to land… to financing… to a finished home.

Together, Robert and Matt dig into:

Why barndominiums are attracting thousands of people every month—and what’s driving the demand

The hidden gaps in traditional pre-engineered steel building models (and how Barndo & Co. filled them)

The emotional and financial realities behind “building your dream on land”

Why most people aren’t ready to build—and how to guide them there

The evolution from red iron to prefabricated cold-formed steel—and what that unlocks

How non-combustible construction, insulation performance, and speed-to-build are changing the game

The real opportunity in affordable housing—and why “doing more than talking about it” matters

This episode also explores a powerful idea:
Building better isn’t just about materials—it’s about decisions made early that eliminate risk, reduce cost, and create a better outcome.

With a growing global footprint, integrated real estate and financing channels, and a mission to make barndominiums a true lifestyle movement, Barndo & Co. is pushing the industry forward.

And with prefabricated cold-formed steel entering the conversation, the future of this space may be even bigger than anyone expected.

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The Build It Better Podcast brings you the news and most up to date advances in the prefabricated cold formed steel industry while introducing you to the industry leader in technology, equipment and software. Whether you're a builder, architect or engineer, join us on this journey and let us introduce you to the future of construction with prefabricated cold-formed steel!

Robert Johnson, the host, is a highly accomplished executive with over 40 years of experience in the construction industry. Throughout his impressive career, he has held numerous leadership positions at some of the wealthiest and most prominent construction firms in the industry. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to the Build It Better Podcast. I am Robert Johnson. The podcast is powered by Global Haven Ventures. And I am fortunate enough today to have Matt Glasgow. Did I say it right? You got it right. I got it right. Didn't even practice that long and still got it right. Welcome, man. Thanks for joining us. And then I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to tell me again what you woke up to yesterday. Now you are in where?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

We are just north of Toronto, about an hour and a half. And yesterday we woke up to 11 degrees Celsius. Um it rained most of the day, flooded everything, and then uh woke up this morning to half a foot of snow.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

And everything was now frozen. Now, the reason I said that is I am in Phoenix, Arizona, where it is supposed to be 103 degrees tomorrow. So we have uh we are sitting on on polar opposites of the weather spectrum here. Um just crazy weather right now, but um that's that's clearly not what I wanted to talk to you about. Um tell me a little bit about yourself, about your business, and kind of the whole getting into that and what was the what was the push there?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Um you know, I think uh finding where I I sit in uh the entrepreneurial spectrum because I've always been involved in a number of businesses, you know, while some of them have been successful and some of them have not been successful. Sure. Um, you know, it was after after the pandemic, both my wife and I, she's my co-founder. Um, we both left our roles with the financial services industry. So it gave me a real opportunity to kind of we wanted to work together. We didn't know what that looked like at the time. And we were doing some contracting and we'd always been in the real estate game and flipping houses and you know, making betterments and buying and selling. Um and we were looking after we sold through the pandemic in buying a piece of land and you know, building a home on it. Originally we had this great idea that we'd build a garage with living quarters above it. Um, and you know, it really didn't work out because the municipalities don't love that. Um, land costs were crazy. We didn't want to overpay for something. So we just kind of we take we took a step back, still knowing that we wanted to to work together, um, got into the the contracting. And the reason I gave you the the the backdrop for the property and the land because that's what that's what inevitably drove us to barn dominiums. Okay. Um and so many other people have been driven to barnuminiums because of this. Uh, you know, it's not just a barn dominium thing, it's definitely a custom home building thing. People want to get out of the city, they want to be mortgage free, they want to build their forever home, and they want to do it as forwardably as possible, too, in many cases. And uh that's how we landed on barn dominiums. And my wife said, we gotta, we gotta go with this because you Google barn dominiums in the Canadian space, you got a a number of pre-engineered steel buildings that kind of came up in the Google search. That's pretty much it. Um, and we started by filling the gaps and what they didn't do because the steel sales guys didn't want to hear about fireplaces or outdoor living or you know, where the where where the site map is. They didn't want to deal with permits or interior construction drawings. So we just kind of came in solving this problem that needed needed fixing. Um, and it just it kind of stuck with us.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

And now we're now explain to me more though. Now so you talked about, you said something about land and and and land being expensive and they and and what kind of the mis municipalities didn't like. And what about barn dominions fixed that or or fell into place for you there? And and you said it it's also happened for others, and and so I'm just curious, drill into that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

So if yeah, I mean you unpack the barn dominion in general, like the first thing, people love it for a number of things. It's the only place that you find just as much shop space as you do heated or cooled living space. Okay. Right. Uh one, they're damn cool, they're sexy, yeah, you know, like the steel siding, the steel roofing, the outdoor living space, you know, it is um it is kind of that class of of people typically that are, you know, looking to be on land, want to be outside of town, no fences, you know, no HOAs, all that kind of stuff. Um and it gives the ability for the freedom of floor plan because most barniniums or post-frame buildings allow you to to to customize that floor plan as much as you want. And that's one of the benefits that we have. We can create a completely custom floor plan for a client by, you know, hitting all the bedrooms where they want to.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Gotcha. Gotcha. So, yeah, you get the look that you want uh of the barn dominion, and it's for the lack of a better term, it's a big open space that you can fill with interior walls, ceiling heights, all the things that you you might want you can have in there. Um very, very customizable. And and it's interesting that you you bring up because I don't think a lot of people when they think about barn dominiums, especially maybe here in the US, that it is a pre-engineered building. Primarily is what people when they when they finally start reaching out to get into it, that's what they're finding. They're finding, you know, um and of course we all see pre-engineered buildings, especially if you want to go live off of land and you've got some some space shops and they're just a box with a you know flat roof or a a tilted roof, you know. I mean, it's there's nothing, there is nothing sexy about that.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

No, we have extensions, like wait to the gutter, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Exactly. And so um this and and I I will share when this gets produced. I will share photos and some of the renderings of things that we can that we can share to give them an idea of what we're talking about here. Yours are far from a pre-engineered metal building shop with roll-up doors and and you know, gutters on the eaves. Um, jump into a little bit more about what's led your taste and design and and you know why you've gone the direction you have.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

So uh, and before we we hit the design side, I want to like kind of again continue to unpack that barn dominion because it is it is a pole barn, it is a pre-engineered steel building. Yeah. There's hybrid approaches, there's people that only built build steel barn bills. That's all they do. And that's part of the community. Some people only want steel barn dominions. Some are very uh want that post-frame building. Uh we have a post-frame division in Alberta, Canada, and that's there's appetite for that farm structure. Um, which leads me back to the pre-engineered part because I feel like at the end of the day, it's still pre-engineered, even if it's a pole bar and it's going to an engineer. Someone's doing the drawings, it's just not being fabricated in a steel plant, right? Yeah. Um, but I think what what led us to the designs was the restriction of that pre-engineered steel building that is, you know, a garage, a few subtleties where we work through up front, you know, rigid end frames and what are the spacing of the GERTs. And um, you know, that all kind of led to never doing a barn dominum that didn't have an eave extension on it. Gotcha. Uh because, you know, I steel can be affordable at that um, you know, 312 pitch slope roof for here, snow loads and no eaves. It's just it's essentially a garage. And we wanted to transform that into something that did have curb appeal, something that people did really want. Now, there's a few iconic Barnows out there. Um, I believe I've sent you the Fenlin, you know, that is a rectangle with a covered porch that breaks it up and gives it kind of a residential look on a big steel wall, essentially. So we started to predominantly look at what does the bungalow look like and go from there because you know, there is clients that are looking for certain, like I said, curb appeal or that view, water, forest, land, those kinds of things. And then there's those people that are just they just want the the finished living space because they've got kids and they need a place to live and they want to be part of the real estate market.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yeah. Amazing. And and your your designs are from what what many would say simple are simple to really, you know, very high-end custom looking structures uh that you know I think anybody would appeal to most anybody. Uh lots of glass and and again, like you mentioned for the views, those people, but who, you know, who knows where they're gonna wind up. You've mentioned that that you're in Canada and barn dominions have picked up uh popularity in Canada, correct? I mean, that's kind of what some of this push for you has been, is that it it's becoming a thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

It is definitely um, you know, like they used to refer to condominiums as something strange and an outlier, and nobody's ever gonna live in a condominium. And you know, like Barndo's are are the are the same, and and I think, you know, there's Facebook groups with 500,000, 700,000 people in them. There's um, you know, it's a whole culture, it's a whole movement of of people that that want barn dominions. And, you know, like I said, they're they're nice looking, they're functional. And I would go as far to say is are they efficient? Yeah, they're efficient because they're built in today's standards by today's requirements of building codes. So, you know, efficiency is never anything like you get a new car today, it's probably better than a car that's 15 years old as far as technology and safety. And, you know, that just kind of goes along with it. So um, you know, for us, we were just we were so enthralled that there was appetite here for the barn. And so much so in our our plans, and I'm I'm glad you mentioned that because it has been one of the drivers that has differentiated us across the board from any barnum company. One, that we do all approaches to barn dominiums, and two, that our designs are great and people love them. I mean, you get Poland, France, UK, you name it, which led us to having three distinct channels: one US channel, one Australian channel, and one Canadian channel. So truly a global barninium company. Um, now in Australia, there isn't a ton of appetite for wood. It's all steel, right? That's what they're used to. That's they understand it. In Canada, they've it's new to them. It's new to the building inspectors. It's, you know, again, Texas, some probably uh chief building officers in Texas have seen hundreds and hundreds of steel barn dominiums. Yeah. Um but up here they still are a little bit, a little bit new. We haven't had any issues in in obtaining any type of permits, or um, they're just looking for that engineered seal. They want to know that the building's engineered.

unknown 11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

And I don't I don't think that you will. I mean, I really don't think that you'll run into to much uh kickback there at all. Um and I'm glad you went there because that was kind of why the pitch to that softball um was to talk about that that uh turning this into a a being a global provider of the barn dominums. And uh I I was uh just talking today with uh one of the folks in Australia about your projects. And they went on and on about how well they fit the prefabricated steel, cold form steel steel piece, which is how you and I got hooked up and what we're still kicking the the tires about and and working into design. Um let's talk about that if we can a little bit. Because you mentioned, and I think it's funny that you mentioned, because I was thinking about it. You know, a lot of people when they hear that when they when they hear the term barn, they think of what they've walked into as children. You know, it's a drafty old building that's just you know got some boards nailed on the outside of it. These are really energy efficient, insulated, you know. I I mean they are a high-performance building in today's market. And I think that's what's interesting about our connection is that I think together what we're looking to do is to make it an even more high-performance product and more enjoyable for people uh you know, in many aspects. Um talk about what you've what you've seen and maybe what was kind of some of the drivers for you to even, you know, chat with us about prefabricated light gauge steel.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

So um I would say the major driver for that, Robert, was centered around this past season of erecting pre-engineered rigid frame steel buildings, as you refer to it as red iron. We don't have red iron up here because everything's primed, right? Uh because it'll just rust on site. Um, but uh it became challenging in a number of reasons. We were restricted from an engineering standpoint. We were restricted from being able to offer the client, even though we're doing the architecturals up front and sending them to the steel companies, they still weren't getting them right. And then, you know, like I've always said the steel companies can sell it, they can collect a deposit, they can manufacture it, they can deliver it, and they can put you in contact with someone that can erect it, but they can barely engineer it on time. Um and that for for us, from an interior finishing perspective, was uh really kind of brought to fruition through the the beginning of the uh tariff wars last year. Sure. So it was the retaliatory tariff specifically, because our steel was coming in from Pittsburgh. Okay. Um, it was the retaliatory tariff that played a big role in our clients' kind of exceeding typical costs. Um along with that, the steel companies, you know, told us it would be about 18 bucks a square foot. That's about going right up here in Canada for rigid steel. Um, and that would be the same, I think, if it was a building that was 50 feet wide and 300 feet long with a couple of garage doors and a man door and a window. Um, up here, when you bring out a crew like that for 1,440 or 1,500 square feet, they got a mobilize, they got insulation, they got multiple windows and doors, they got, you know, so it was also the erecting cost. So you combine the cost of the steel with the erecting costs, and it just made that pre-engineered steel building not an affordable approach unless the client wanted it. Now, we have a client that's you know 7,750 square feet on the ground, 22-foot sidewalls, Scandinavian type look, 50 feet wide, 150 foot long kind of thing. And he wanted steel. He wants a steel mezzanine, he wants a steel interior liner, he wants, you know, that's what he wants. Um, but we also wanted to still offer steel because it's a big part of the Barnumidium community. Sure. So enter Robert, um, you know, and having the ability to have some conversations about what is what options and what you guys are doing and what they're doing, they seem to be doing all over the world. We're just not doing it here. Yeah. Um, you know, we could talk regular home construction and bungalows and things like that. Obviously, my my niche is in the in the Barnell market. I was okay, well, why can't we do panelized cold form steel? Like I see it everywhere. Why don't we have it here? Um and then, you know, it just kind of drove us down this this path to look at a better way for the client, a more cost-effective way for the client, um, combined with the slab on grade concept as a cost-saving driver, to, you know, we can only push the material so far. So, how do we push the needle on time to build? How do we work while we're working? Because our our team is then working on permitting, our team is then working on excavation and underground and foundation while your team is building so they can converge together at the same time. Um so, and I was I, you know, I think from my perspective, you we've been going down this road since the IBS conference, and I've, you know, had a lot of enlightening experiences just even talking about it more. Um, because there is no one else really in Canada that's that's obviously focused on barnuminiums and focused on this preferred method of construction.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah. Well, and I think what what kind of we both have discovered through this, um, you know, I felt like it was a good option from the beginning, but I think what we've discovered is is that it it gives your clients the same thing that they've they j essentially been, you know, that drew them to it and and that they're looking at. We can give them the exact structure that they that they want to look, you know, that they want it to look just like this. That's great. It's gonna look just like that. Except they're gonna have so many more capabilities with, you know, uh insulation, with you know, interior wall configurations, with, you know, interior, you know, trusses and things and making ceilings different angles or whatever. I think there's just so much more customization there um and the ability to get just a much more high performance building than a metal than a metal building. Um and again, I I get what you're saying. Some people want the metal building. Look, and that's what they want.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Some people have already bought it. They don't have a choice, they already bought the building.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah, more power to them. And so um I I'm just what I'm excited about is this the the ability to replicate what you're doing in Canada, in the US, and in Australia. I mean, that takes it even to another level. It it's uh it's it it really is exciting for us, and I and I'm hoping that it helps you get to that next level with with the future. Um speaking of future, like so what is your future looking like? Uh explain to the folks when we talk about this being popular without showing your whole hand how how popular is it? I mean, how many people are really knocking on your door for a barn dominion?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Well, uh, we have about 12 to 15,000 people a month that visit our website. 12 to 15,000 a month. On average, they spend about eight minutes. Which is, I mean, we're not we're not at like a an online shop, you know, it's not like click away, some people click away, but um I think there's there's a lot of people that are now understanding and exploring, and still the you know, that veil is being uncovered and people are seeing them more and more and more. Um I think what excites me is that we again, my kind of financial services background. I I worked with fintech companies. So I worked investment proposals and goal-based planning for um financial planners and and investment advisors. So I everything was always about client onboarding in the financial services industry and the journey, the fact-finding. Um, we realized very quickly that, you know, what we're doing here, 50% of the people that are reaching out to us don't own land and have a home to sell. Um, so we created a distinct real estate division that is responsible for those initial phases because we would send people away, say, hey, call me back when you sell your house or call me back when you buy land. But they had all these questions. So, and then obviously financing is a huge bit of everything. Um, you know, so we created that financing division where we can help guide the client because this is this is very transitional. It's not transactional. I mean, you have you want to sell a shell package, I would I want to buy a shell package, I'm gonna ship it out easy. That's a transaction, but this is a transition for most people to you know, their dreams and their hopes that they've always wanted to. So, and we want to help guide them through that every stage so it gets to that point. So, you know, eventually we have the conversation of what is our approach to build? Because, like I said, you know, we offer multiple approaches, but But what suits that client best based on their location, their geography, based on the trades that are available in those specific areas. You know, there's a lot of things. It's like, how do I fund my project? That's that's a huge thing for clients. And while I don't want to be the guy that reviews your taxes and things like that, I need to have a general understanding of the approaches to funding the project. And so, you know, Barndo Co. in itself is a is an entity that has these different channels. And the United States just fell into a channel. Um, the Party Limited in Australia fell into a channel, the real estate and financing division fell into a channel in Canada, which, you know, we're looking to replicate. I mean, what excites me about the future is the United States. I mean, it's the single largest barnuminium market in the world. Uh, we're in Australia, one, because there's appetite for it. Ours, our group kicked off pretty quick. Barnuminium Living Australia kicked off pretty quick. Six plus thousand members to it because you know it was new, it was fresh, it was exciting. Plus, our our grandkids live there, our daughter and our son-in-law live there. So that's a that's definitely a bonus. Sure. Um, but the you know, the states, the real estate model, because there's gonna come a time, Robert, when all of these barn dominiums need to be sold. We're gonna have a transaction. And Barnova Core Real Estate wants to be the company that that sells it, that lists it, that helps see that. If we can't, if we can't buy one for you, maybe we'll we can build one for you, and then we can help you sort out the financing for those pieces. Because, you know, the prefab world is something that typically most of our stuff is built on site. And I feel even though the wall systems are prefabricated, it's still built on site. It's not shipped in, you know, a ready-to-move kind of scenario. Um, which I think people like as well. I think that's another big driver for sure, for the pro, you know, like everybody knows the prefab home or the modular trailer market. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I I think that's for for us, being global is important. Um, you know, we've spent a lot of time talking, and Florida is is rapidly approaching our our our next market. Um, we're actively advertising there. We're actively having conversations. We have boots on the ground now, people there that can answer phones from a whatever 408 or 401, you know, area code and understand the locations. So um, and how we want to enter that market right now. Typically, all we're offering in the in the American space um is kind of reverting back to where we started, which unfortunately um worked, or I should say fortunately. Unfortunately, it doesn't but it doesn't bother me. Um it's just not a pre-engineered steel building. It's yeah, it's a cold form steel building, panelized, shipped to site, uh, you know, erected in just a few days, ready for whatever type of sheathing we want to put on it.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I it it it's um uh to me that's that's where I'm really excited. I I think that we're gonna open up a whole new uh uh trend here in in the market. And and it it's interesting that you bring up this kind of typical way that that people are getting into it. Um just since we started talking. Um I I've I've had a probably a couple of of other conversations with folks that were interested in bar dominiums, but they were just one-offs, you know. And it was those people that were kicking the tires, you know, this is what I want. Oh, this is my dream. Yes. And we said the same thing to them. It's like, okay, well, how soon are you ready to to start this? And they went, Well, we've got to sell our home first. And, you know, whatever we get out of that will tell us, you know, how much equity we have in it, and we'll be able to put into another. And they started this whole thing again. And and uh I with both of them, I said, Well, you know what, why don't you kind of throw on the brakes of what you're thinking about? Let me introduce you to some people that can kind of walk you through all of that instead of you getting on the phone calling some guy about a build, about the structure, but I can't tell you anything about the finishes. Uh, I can't tell you anything about the land that you're looking for. Um and so you're right, you're that one-stop shop for those people that that that want that barn dominion experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

And so much so that we're actually like we've drilled down to a very macro level of like exactly what that client looks like. Not who that client is, because we could both build the same 1,500 square feet. And I could, I could, I could spend uh, you know, another hundred dollars a square foot, and you could spend$75 less a square foot. Um, but it is a very, that's what I kind of led with at the beginning. This isn't a barnaminium thing necessarily. It's the it's the I want to build on a piece of land dream. Yeah, a lot of our clients are in that dream phase. They don't understand where to go. And we're actually just working on what we call the the Barno journey, which is kind of like up front. Because, you know, when I wanted to get into this, I realized very quickly that if you want anyone to take seriously, you got to have plans, you got to have land, and you gotta have money. Otherwise, no one's willing to take you seriously. They're not willing to hear you out or give you some idea because we know what the cost of land is. It's there, it's on realtor, Zillow, whatever. It's right there. There it is. What I don't know is how much it costs to build a barn of Indium because they're working it out in their head on how much does it cost? How much do I have to pay? How much am I gonna get from my house? What is my mortgage gonna be at the end? Am I gonna have a mortgage? Um, and planning the design. We doesn't matter if you called me today and said, I want to build, I've got land, I want to start tomorrow. Um, and you paid us our, you know, a down payment on our fee, because that's how we work as a fee for service company. Um I would say, okay, off to plan and design. You go to our team, you plan your barn dominium, you design it, and we get the construction drawings and we approve the construction drawings, and then we stamp the construction drawings, and then we send it to Robert so he can do the estimate for the for the steel. Like that's how that whole thing goes. So at the beginning of it, most people aren't in it. So it just means that 80% of the people I talk to are not ready to build a barn dominion. No, no. But we're trying to get people under the impression that they understand that the best way to under to get there is one, setting goals, being informed, getting a plan down on paper. And then we're we're looking at this, I wouldn't say exit strategy, but this strategy to work with them on financing the things that are challenging. We can always finance a whole construction project. In some cases, you can even find finance land and build. But if someone wants to buy a shell package, you know, let's say our balsam cold form steel package ready that's you know out the door. And let's say it's$92,900 with windows and doors. You can't get financing for that. What is they're not gonna, the finance companies are not gonna drive to site and pick up your windows and doors and your panels of steel, right? So how do what does that look like from from working with lenders to understand that, you know, we're actually trying to push the needle on affordable housing. We're not just talking about it. And how does that work from a financing perspective? Because, you know, these are all things that clients don't know. Um and um I really at the end of the day, I just want to see more Barnos be built. I mean, that's that's what we talk about every day.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Yeah. And you know, when when uh when we met you folks and and your wife, Shauna, uh and I got to yak and um now listen, if people think you're passionate about it, um she takes your passion level to about two and a half to three times. Um and and you know, one of the things I said to her, we were talking about is that a lot of people don't want to get into the business that you're in because of the emotional attachment and having to deal with, you know, that this is this is people building their dreams or are are getting into all this, and it's just for people in the construction world, they're like, nah, I don't I don't want to deal with that. I can build the thing. And and then when when she starts talking started talking to me and with the passion that she had about all of the pre-construction, pre-conversation, and and really the drive to take that emotional connection out of it in the very beginning before you get even into the thing, um, just goes a long way to making it, A, a a decision that you are very comfortable in making, and B a process that is also going to be very enjoyable for you and not as emotionally driven as, say, you know, 60%, 70% of people's custom home building experiences. So you really come at it from a very different perspective that I think is going to uh r uh charm uh a number of people into the the the first barn dominion of their life.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

So what's the We definitely are managers of emotion, yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah, so that is exactly oh, and I think maybe that was the term that she used, which I which I think is really cool. So what is um what's what's next? What's uh besides the what we've talked about, share some of the vision about the future of Barndo and Co.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Um kind of did did. I mean, the the real estate and the the way we we're choosing to enter the U.S. market has been very strategic. Um actually, today, as of today, we just got our HCRA license. So we we created another entity called Barnow Co. Barnuminiums Inc. Um, removed Barn Dominiums from our trade name. And so we have these different divisions real estate, financing, Barnominiums, which is our custom home building entity, which I'm very excited about because there is still a few people that that want that experience. You know, it obviously it comes at a cost. And I think what we've done on the Barno and Co. side, being ultra transparent with our clients, uh, you know, multiple estimates for each trade, sharing those estimates with clients, you know, not buying a building from from Global Haven and marking it up to sell it to them, um, you know, was because that's the shrouded part of the industry, the part that's not transparent. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The typical the builder model. Um, and we've we've won of a lot of clients that way because we're open and we're honest and transparent. We'll behave the same way from a, so to speak, from a custom home building perspective. You know, we're looking at a cost plus scenario, uh, fixed contracts, you know, playing with the games, the home warranty, like the, you know, was it was the only thing we weren't doing, which allows us now to work with investors because we carry that vendor builder license. Um, you know, so that opens up another kind of realm for business development for us. Uh, because I do, you know, while I don't know that it's I wouldn't go as far to call it a passive home. I've uh, you know, like I think passive homes are neat. I think it's expensive. I think that, you know, it's it's someone's personal aspirations that make them want to have a passive home. Um, I like to call ours low impact. You know, I think there's a huge, a huge market out there for people that want to own dirt. They want, they don't want a Kwanzaa hut. They don't want um uh a storage container, they want a piece of land, they want to cut their lawn. And I I feel the barnuminium with with us up here anyways on those insulated dick and edge slabs, uh, you know, a septic system, a drilled well. I mean, these are very low impact projects to land. So I like to call them low impact, affordable if they want to be, because you know, I talk to clients about electric hot water heaters and laminate countertops and$850 tub surrounds because that's what fits into their budget.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

We also talk about in-floor heating and enhanced installation and you know, additional power generation on site, if that's correct. You know, we do have a client that's been off grid. So um I think the evolution of our business, Sean and I have spent a lot of time over the last couple of years creating these channels and these silos that benefit our core business so we can really start to grow. Um, Sean owns another company. It's called Barnuminium Living Company, and they're working on trade shows that are dedicated to the barnuminium industry. Not quite as big as the IBS, but um, you know, same kind of principle. And that gives us the ability to we want to make barnaminians a thing. Like they're already a thing, but we want like it's the it's a lifestyle thing. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

So um, yeah, custom home building, definitely. We're looking at uh a builder partnership program, um, you know, like leveraging that local organic um thing. We need we need real estate, right? Like pairing a real estate agent and uh and a builder partner inside of a community where we get this very like organic, you know, rooted kind of yeah, or like I want to say organic again because it is it's just like hey, we can build bar dominions in wishwash, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Like that's and you kind of get that whole kind that that whole barn raising vibe, um, you know, where the whole community comes together and stands up the walls and you know, you you kind of get that you kind of get that feel about your about about your build. Yes. Yeah, it again, it's just it's a really, really cool. And a vibe's a great word for it, uh uh of designing and building these. And uh I I think that it can't be anything but successful.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Uh they just fit, you know, like 70% of our clients uh are like generational. They're either moving back to land and putting an ADU or a smaller Barnardo at the back, or you know, we got a two-story 2,400 square foot separated with a garage and an in-law suite on the back. I mean, that's where the the real estate is has driven them. You know, they're all selling their homes and they're building a Barno. And I think that's again part of that lifestyle thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Yeah, it absolutely is. It absolutely is. And there's so many places in the country that these are going, you know, probably already are moving that way, but uh will be even more popular. Family compounds. That's yeah, exactly. No, that's another thing that that um I mean was a thing back probably when I was even a kid or teen, you know, family compounds were fairly common, uh, especially where people out and could own land, but it's really gotten away from it. And I think there is a real desire as people you know grow their families and then they get into the age where they want to retire and say, Hey, great, I've got some land. Um all of my kids and grandkids should have a place to come up here. And uh man, what a perfect idea.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

That's what Shauna says, age in place, right? Because they all everybody comes to us and says, I want to downsize, I want to, you know, the single floor living. And um, Shauna's always saying, because again, like we are still very active on the build business development front. We just, after two years, we just hired our first sales agent. And I shouldn't say sales agent, she's the director of our sales division, like she is top-down. Yeah. Um, and we're very excited about that because it's still Shauna that takes the majority of the calls from the client, the business development. And then they land on me for estimation and negotiations into becoming a um uh a client, you know. So we're still very heavily invested in, you know, just yeah I get our passion exudes that way.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah. No, it really does. And and I think anybody that reaches out to you um will sense it immediately. And not just from not just from the two of you, but from even your the staff that I've met. You get that same feel, and everybody's just as excited about it and just as excited about getting people in Barndo. So um what we haven't we talked about that you want to talk about? Is there anything that we've missed here?

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Um no, I no, I uh again, I think we should just kind of bring it a little bit back to the you know, the whole reason that we're on this. I mean, like you're talking about build it better, right? Absolutely. Um, and it's you know not centralized to the the theme of of building necessarily. I think that it it's more unique to talk about our relationship and uh you know what that looks like because again, like literally it's in your name at Global Haven. Like it's it's it's in the name. Yeah. Um and maybe like still, I'm still learning, right? I'm still fresh on the cold form. Like I said, it's not it's not up here, and we want to be the first ones to bring Barno's cold form to the Canadian space. Tariffs are not, like it's it's happening. Yeah, it's gonna happen. There's enough people to make that happen. Right. So I think um, you know, it's it's for me, it's um it's about exploring the the limitations of what we can do with the tools that are presented in front of us. It's like a a golf club, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Yeah, yeah. No, it it it's so true. And I think it then that it's important to to talk uh briefly about what building with the prefabricated coke warm steel is going to bring you. Um, you know, it it it clearly brings, and for for many, they don't think about this until it's too late, but uh it it it affords you to be able to build with a completely non-combustible structure. Um and I'm not just talking about your exterior walls, I'm talking about your interior walls, your your decking, your sheathing, uh a completely non-combustible, which is becoming a bigger and bigger issue when it comes to insurance and what that does to your insurance costs. So we're all talking about affordable housing. I can't think of a better way to make it more affordable is to drive those insurance costs down uh that are going up because of the number of traditionally built wood frame homes that are now being destroyed by the hundreds, by the thousands because of just natural disaster. Not to mention those that are in high pest zones that termites and carpenter ants and things like that uh get a hold of. So, I mean, that's one of the things that people are going to be able to look forward to. The the other is, you know, the ability to really heavily insulate uh and create thermal breaks and and and really make these a very energy conscious choice. Uh you you mentioned, you know, people in passive house and and you know, net zero building and all these things that are becoming big buzzwords. You're right, I get hit with it all the time, and it and it drives me crazy. And I'm like that that can be incredibly expensive to do. Uh and it's always a choice. It's just like you mentioned about how some people they just have they want to spend the money. They don't this is what I want, and this is I want GOS thermal. And I yeah, whatever it is. It's just it's what I want, so I'm gonna pay the money for it. That's fine. But there's a lot of people out there that cannot afford that. But we still want to provide them with an exceptionally high quality uh build and something that is going to, you know, help them via you know their electric bills and heating and cooling and and things of that nature.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Um I mean it's you know it's just to touch on a few of those things, you know. I've I've since I've been starting, you know, in this this US steel business, and it, you know, it was leaving the IBS where I said I looked at my my wife and I said, we're a global steel company now, like whether we like it or not. And I've been saying in Canada, I don't want to sell kits, I don't want to do all this stuff, but the reality is is that what that's where we are now. Um and there's a number of people that I've spoken to. To over the last you know, six weeks that have said some of those uh multifamily dwellings, four-story, you know, there or anything that's government related is going to be mandated that it needs to be non-combustible. It needs to be done out of steel because it'll um and then I think about California, that's another massive steel market. I mean, they've been building with steel in San Francisco for years, and you know, very nice, very architectural design, cantilever type houses, flat roofs, and stuff like that. There's been some companies that have come up, and then there's been some companies that have disappeared in that industry. But um, I mean, it there's benefits to it. And from a technology standpoint, I think it's oh yeah, you just as we, you know, you schooled me a couple times. Um, you know, and I'm not a pro-wood guy. I just know what I'm seeing in the construction landscape today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Um, but you definitely have validated some definite benefits.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Well, you know, um uh we've we get we get a lot of discussions, have a lot of discussions in in Florida. Florida is a big market for uh prefabricated light gauge steel, cold form steel. Big market. Because, you know, there a lot of what they've been building with for now for many years is CMU or you know, concrete masonry, concrete block. And and it's expensive. Two stories.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

I just drove one by a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

And it's uh and it's ugly. You know, I mean, it's just a box. And I mean, you know, there's all these things that go with it. And coal form steel is now there to give people an option to get back to building things that look more traditional, but still get them that non-combustible uh feel requirement that they have to have.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Well, and that's why you engineered everything that we're gonna do at Miami Dade, 180 mile an hour wind loads. Um, and then uh, you know, you combine that with uh, so I'm sure you're familiar with ICF. Yep. Yep. I'm I remember when ICF was just coming out, everybody was like, Oh, I know. What's what's ICF? I've never heard of it. Now people are building complete homes, or yeah, you know, 30% of the market is doing ICF foundations in their basement. Yeah. Um, and I feel cold coal form steel is is there here in North America. I feel it's already there in Europe.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Oh, yeah. See, and that's the thing. And you said this kind of when we started, is that it they build everywhere else in the country with this. Um, it's just the U.S. that's lagging behind. And we can even get more specific. The East Coast of the U.S. is much, it's much more prevalent uh along the East Coast as it is in all in Western U.S. Western U.S., it's still people, you know, don't understand it. You don't see a lot of it. You know, it it costs more, they think. I mean, there's just all these things. But we you mentioned, you mentioned California and the and the fires, the wildfires. I mean, we're talking about areas that the insurance companies have come out, major insurance companies, all state farmers, and have said, we're not gonna we're just we're not gonna insure homes there anymore. We just can't do it if you're gonna build back combustible. And you can drive through there today and see people building back with lumber. And I I'm like Yeah. Now I get it. If if if you don't you're gonna self-fund and you don't need to take out a mortgage and you're not gonna have to insure your your your your structure and you want to build back with wood, okay. I'm not anti-wood, it just doesn't make sense to me to build in high fire areas, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

And the many of those in Canada, I was in Vancouver a little over a year ago. Yes. And they were telling me it it's become a massive issue. Um, you know, the wildfires and and fire danger and and you know, the need to and when people finally start to understand that this is not a building product conversation, it's not a wood, steel, dirt block, you know, ICF. It's not that yeah, it it's it is a discussion about making decisions early on that make you and allow you to have a better product in the end without all the problems and having to shave, you know, your the studs in your home because the walls have gotten crooked during construction. And and you know, you just there's all these things that decisions being made and about what building components to use and what systems to use just make that downstream building just so much better. Less risk, less contingency. I mean, you don't even I don't even know the last time that I put a contingency in a number. I just don't do it because we don't build expecting risk. Uh we take all that out of the design early on. Um so yeah, uh I it it's it's uh it it's kind of the whole thing that that's got us chatting and and I think I I again I'm just really excited to be a part of it. I think we're really, you know, kind of gonna start a trend that's uh that you may be the first one to really start kicking the kicking that ball that can down the road.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

So well, you know, we've kind of led with what we've seen over the past couple of years, you know, like I said at the beginning, one iconic barnuminium, which is our Femlin model. Again, 14-foot sidewalls, 1,200 square foot garage, 300, 2,000 square feet of heated living space. Um, you know, to the one that most people reach out to us, which is the balsam, to the one that most people build, which is the Halton, because it's 1800 square feet. It's got four bedrooms, it's super easy, no window walls, to the one that we're building the second most about, and that's just 1,200 square feet, 30 by 40. I mean, the that is the reality. I that's why we we started the custom home building because we want to use cold form steel as an approach to build our custom barniniums, right? But no one's looking for a 1200 square foot custom custom home in that fashion. Um and I think that uh for for me, I think it's um, you know, just just continually evolving, just like the conversation evolves, the approaches to building evolve. Um, not from like we have back best practices with you know of what we should be doing. I mean, there, you know, there's the code, the national building code, the code in each state, the code in each province here that drives how we have to build based on energy efficiencies, essentially, which will change, which means we will need to make them more efficient, or we will need to make them non-combustible, or we will need to do this to conform to get the approval to build. Um, but it's also a best practices scenario, and I'm a firm believer in best practices because they don't, they don't exist. What is the best way to deal with a client when they have questions about spray foam versus fiberclass? Yep. What is the best approach? There's this channel down the middle. And, you know, again, that comes from my financial services background because there's there's governing bodies telling you what you can and can't do, but there's no one saying this is the best approach for you. And I think we need more conversations like this. We need more, you know, not the National Frame Builders Association of America or, you know, like all of these things that are like you said, you put it perfectly. This is not to to drive product, this is to drive awareness and education.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Yeah. Exactly. And and you brought this up, and I'd like to just tag this in before we close this down, that that, you know, people you're looking for, and one of the big things is affordable housing now. Well, as you said, you know, not a lot of people are wanting to build, you know, 1,200 square foot or or 1,800 square foot Barndoes, maybe, or, or something to that effect. But think about how with your model that and and the the partnership that Global Haven Ventures has has uh begun with you, in that utilizing our manufacturing partners, we can have the designs done and printed anywhere in the country uh without having to go through a design, a this, a that, and literally, you know, within weeks of having an approved permit, building permit, wall panels can be showing up on site and you can be building very affordably because you didn't have to engineer it again. You didn't have to, there's so many pieces and parts there that were taken out of that system. Um and for for the sake of conversation, the wall panels could have been sitting in one of these shops for four months waiting for that next customer. I mean, it it just it it makes this uh man, I don't want to use this term. It it makes almost makes this like the Home Depot for for your building components. Um and and again, it's a poor choice, but I think it it paints the picture. Man, it's a Robert, hey, I need a XYZ. Okay, great. Well, uh, here's a PO and bam, we're we're sending a file and people are are are printing walls while you're out, you know, starting to shove dirt and clear land and and get the thing ready to build.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

So I just want to say yes, absolutely. I did say the 1200 square foot, but I in reference to that, it was about like nobody wants to build from a custom home building perspective. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the correct that Georgina that we had estimated, we're putting them in as ARUs, we're putting them in on land, we're putting them in individually in residential markets, we're putting we're building five of them across the nation because it is it's a sweet spot for what I refer to as the the under-service market. Like that, you know, in my case up here it's 450 to 500,000. In your case down there, let's say it's uh 300 to 400,000 because our our real estate markets are very different. But yes, rinse and repeat. Let's let's solve the problem for people. Um so we can actually, like I said, do more about affordable housing. I'll just talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Yeah, I agree. Your website, barndowandco.ca. Yes, it right? B-A-R-N-D as in dog o a n dc o dot C A. Correct. Barn Do and Co.ca. You can't use that ampersand sign in the while the webinar to spell it out. Well, well, buddy, man, uh I thank you for taking the time. Uh we we tend to to talk for at least once a week. Uh let's not make this our once a week call, but um, thanks for thanks for coming on. And uh let's uh let's do something special.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Absolutely. Love it. Thanks for the invite. Anytime, Robert.